Thoughts On A Mario Marathon 4

[cowman]

I haven’t been quite sure how I felt about how Mario Marathon 3 ended but while commenting on MacGuy’s blog today I had some extensive thoughts on the whole thing…

First off I want to say that I'm grateful both for myself and my family and friends as well as on behalf of the countless children whose lives you've made better to everyone involved with the marathon.

I am also very thankful for all the effort Brian put in this year.

But that being said I think Brian went over the top this year. I don't know where this expectation that it has to keep getting bigger comes from - whether externally or internally imposed this idea is one of a potential Mario Marathon 4's greatest enemies. Brian and the rest have built not just a wonderful event but a strong foundation for future events, and that foundation doesn't need to be expanded. There's a lot that Brian did for this marathon that a Mario Marathon 4 would get along just fine without (which is not to say we're unappreciative). Here’s a few…

Publicity. I was watching when your news story hit the airwaves and the effect on viewers and donations did not seem significant. As fun as it was having the news crew join in, any extra work or stress actively looking for that kind of attention was ultimately perhaps not worth it. Let Wil Wheaton, Felicia Day, The Huffington Post, and your legions of viewers get the word out. Given the huge donation spike at the end you no longer need, as participants, to invest time, effort, and stress into publicity. Let the interwebs who desperately want some version of this event to continue, do that little bit of heavy lifting for you. Heck, it might make you a more highly sought commodity if THEY (the media) have to chase YOU now.

Prizing. Again, this is extraneous. Don't get me wrong, I can't wait until my Star Get t-shirt arrives but spending money and working hard on getting prizing is extraneous. I can't imagine many people donated that which they would not have otherwise donated just at the chance for a prize. ThinkGeek provided free prizing based on the strength of the event - let that be the model for how you get prizing. Zero cost, low maintenance.

Props. Things like the FLUDD and Propeller helmet (got the spelling correct that time!) while epically awesome are likewise extraneous. The time and cost put into those, while appreciated, need not recur.

Sleep Get. One thing I would really like to see improved on a potential Mario Marathon 4 would be the addition of at least 1 more full-time gamer and a more rigidly enforced sleep schedule. There were many times I wanted to tell John to go get some sleep when there were other people playing. I felt so bad for you and Brian in the wee small hours of the morning after having already stayed awake for so long. 1 extra player (I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to find volunteers) would mean more sleep for everyone and just making John get some proper sleep (tiny naps are no good) would hopefully take a load off of the physical demands during the event.

I know this doesn't address some of the fundamental issues of time off during the event, family commitments during the event, and venue if you need/want to relocate; only the Mario Marathon team can tackle those issues but rather than letting the Mario Marathon die, just get back to basics. You guys have the technology and the software, it works great. Don't constantly look for improvements or the next big thing - just keep what you've got working. You've made it - coast a little, don't reinvent the wheel. Don’t even push the wheel any faster, just maintain the wheel.

We want the event to continue and if people feel as I do we want to make it easier on you guys to pull it off. We don’t just want the event to continue because it’s wickedly entertaining (which it is) but because the cause spoke to us. You keep saying it’s the internet that made the donations happen but Brian and the gang deserves enormous credit for bringing us all together, giving us a goal, and making it happen. The event has clearly gained huge momentum; let that momentum carry you forward. Don’t feel that you have to add to it or even do as much as you’ve done in the past. Just maintain your precious creation. Brian put his full heart and soul into expanding and upgrading this thing this year and it nearly ran him over. Just keep it alive, the internet will bring the epic.

[icecoldmario]

I completely agree with you. Hey, if MM4 ever gets announced, I'll force my parents to allow me to get a facebook and a twitter just so I can spam about MM4 to everyone, and I'm sure there are tons of new viewers this year who would do the same. You guys went waaaay over our expectations, and I know it was a lot of work. I'm sure some fans could make some props, like the FLUDD and send you guys instructions so you can post them on the site without having to build a thing. When I first saw MM2 in July 09, I thought to myself "Wow! I wonder how much work they had to go through to get those awesome mario decals on the wall!" Apparently, that was only the tippy tippity tip of the iceberg. I know even planning Mario Marathon 4 will put a lot of stress on family life, but I want the team to at least try to find a suitable date sometime in the future. If they honestly can't, then that's okay, because I KNOW somebody out there will continue the legacy, and I also have the idea of having the MM1-3 team skyping in to keep track of everything. And Brian needs more rest. If there is a MM4, we don't want him telling us not to donate too early on. (jkjkjk)

[cowman]

Jun 30, 2010 18:16:31 GMT -5 icecoldmario said:

You guys went waaaay over our expectations, and I know it was a lot of work.

Exactly. And as much as they surpassed expections they did not RAISE them for any potential event next year.

Raised the demand maybe, but not the expectations.

[storm39]

My responses to the points you made, with some other suggestions regarding them:

The publicity stunts this year may have been stressful, but they'll pay off in the long run. At this point, the event is practically self-promoting it's so big. Next year, social networks and celebrity tweets should be enough.

As for prizes, try to get donations from places like ThinkGeek. With the 81K from MM3, it won't be hard to convince people that your serious.

Props can be re-used. They may be hard to make, but it's a one-time task. They'll last for quite some time if you take proper care of them. You could also have a prop contest before the event, similar to the Desert Bus Craft Along, except you use the items instead of selling them.

Like Cowman said, one extra person would make a world of difference. On a related note, you may want to find a relative or friend to look after the children. Family obligations were a major stress on it, and this would make things easier for both the event hosts and the children.

[jeremyorchid]

I like the idea that this is the last one, personally.

Over the last 3 years, the marathons have gone from a magical gathering of no-name gamers getting together to do something incredible, and grown into a mechanical orchestrated affair. That being said, this was a pretty good one, but speaking purely as someone who watched for entertainment, I think it's better to end on their best year ever than to do it year after year and let it slowly go downhill.

You say they don't need to do anything more to impress us; I say the team's mindset is correct. Doing things bigger and better keeps the event from growing stagnant. Despite their efforts, I felt as though stagnation was already taking place this year; watching 3 guys play Mario games for a long time can really only be entertaining a few times.

However, I would like to see Brian, John, Chris, and Dan do some kind of monthly podcast type thing. A big part of the fun (for me, anyway) was hearing about all their cool stories from highschool and college, and that interesting dialogue could live on in a different form. I'm not sure such an idea would interest them, seeing as none of them really cared about internet fame, and therefor they may not be willing to do things for their fans that don't involve charity work, but it is a thought. I really don't want to see the team disappear into obscurity.

[cowman]

I have to disagree with "mechanical" and "orchestrated" - it seems very organic and sincere to me.

I think the whole problem is applying a business mindset to a charity event.

[tds449]

I personally love all the glitz and glamor the guys put into the event. If there is a future Mario Marathon I think they could run it the same way as MM3, just with a little more organization to the schedule so we don't have tired people playing when they don't want to and Time Run Out Gets.

[layereddefense]

I thought that the time spent into the opening cinematic, the trailer, and the videos that were introduced at the beginning were actually helpful as it built suspense. Suspense, in my opinion, is the greatest form of viral marketing. If you have enough to give out to bring suspense to an event, more people will remember it and will come back to check on it from time to time, waiting for the event to begin just to see what is new and what is going on.

I think the contests helped bring the word out because it forced people to use twitter and facebook to get into the contest which told their friends and family about the event and forced them to get more people involved. More people getting involved means more viewers, more potential donations, and more people entering the contest which means they will also let more people know about Mario Marathon and so on and so on. I doubt the event will die down and I can see it increasing from year to year. If the main issue is space, I am sure people are willing to donate a bit of money to help find a location, having the right location for it would mean a better prepared event and a better marathon meaning more donations to make up for the donations used to get the new location. All that is needed is one location that can be rented for a month at a time each year. You might even be able to find a place that is willing to donate some extra room for the event.

I think the small things like the propeller hat, the costumes, couch pig, and the dancing help make the event what it is even if it's not too much to add to the donations. It's that type of showmanship that makes the event what it is because you have these people who are up for extreme amounts of time, playing video games, and coming up with creative antics that get people involved. Tired Brian and John practically make the event on their own. The ending of MM3 was more epic than anything else during the event in my opinion, though I must admit it was hilarious in MM2 watching them complete Sunshine while I was at work.

I am more than willing to help in any capacity as I live in the Plymouth, IN and actually have a friend that lives down in Lafayette, so I would have a place to stay. If MM4 requires more people to either play, help setup, or even to help with other miscellaneous stuff, I have no problem with providing assistance. I'm sure I could also help scout out a location for someone willing to donate some space during the week of the event.

I think the best way to keep the event interesting is to not just limit this to the platformers but to expand into another area. If you're doing this from another location, why not have a second team that can take over with the other games like Super Mario RPG. If you have someone that can do it fast and can beat the game, I think a lot of people will be interested especially with some of the hilarious things that happen in the game. There are a lot of people that were interested in seeing RPG and Paper Mario, and for the fun of getting people involved, why not play one of the Mario Party games just for the frustrations? I think expanding the catalogue of games and players might bring a unique view on the whole marathon concept. Make it last a little longer, but don't put any more stress on those already playing. Bring some new people into the loop, try to get a dedicated setup for the event, and setup a sleep schedule to where people will actually go to sleep. Give them a bit of leeway, it would certainly be hard for me to just go straight to sleep after playing games for 12 hours.

Edit: I think the idea of using Mario Party would actually be great for the event as you have the players competing and this gives people the opportunity to cheer for their favorite player. It's easily accessible so anyone can really play, whether they are one of the players or not, and it could let people just jump into the game. One or two games of Mario Party would suffice, and they don't have to be right next to each other so it can give the platformers a break from their games to let others play the party games. That'll keep the viewers interested, the donors donating, and would bring something new to the event.

[gravitythief]

I posted something yesterday on macguy's blog, so this might be a bit of deja vu.

I was completely overwhelmed this year, although in a good way (does that make any sense?). When I saw the MM3 website early this year, I didn't expect them to reach anything near the final donation amount, as those blue coin levels were all at the end, and anyone who saw the last marathon knew that unless they planned in a very scheduled way there would be no chance shirtguy would risk his sanity trying to finish those levels by tuesday.

So when those donations kept coming in, first at 30k, then 40k, then the massive push to the 60k sale, it was just an amazing feeling- I had no idea that people could be so generous.

At the same time, I still believed that hitting blue coin levels would not be possible...but when they did, I was completely blown away.

When shirtguy made the decision not to carry on past 80k, the chat just exploded with conflicting opinions. It actually got quite scary in there, as people felt 'betrayed', that 'the organisers had broken their own rules'; the amount of hate was offset by a lot of goodwill from others though.

I personally did not want to see shirtguy suffer like he did last year. Considering that all three main players were in that room at that time, it felt like everyone had gathered for that one final ending/party when MM would finally catch up with those unlocked levels. I wouldn't have wanted it to end with couchguy still trying to get those last few coins in a completely dazed state, with only couchdog in the room

On a different note, I'm not sure how Paper Mario RPG would work in a streaming environment. As much as I love the game, it's hard to tune in and understand where the player currently is without someone prompting. Also, failgets would be an all-time low

[layereddefense]

It's not so much about fail gets with the RPG as catering to the large number of people that wanted to have it in the event but were turned away because it wasn't there. It's like how cable networks will try catering to different groups with one television show that is action/adventure and another one that is sci-fi, and then going back to action/adventure. Having RPG on there with someone who can beat it fast, it would make for a different type of event with more people viewing. Or at least throwing less serious games into the mix, like Mario Kart (any of the versions).

Having players competing/playing with each other would make the event more interesting to me. I would love to see four players play through a Mario Party game just to see who would win, imagine how many would tune in just to see the frustrations.

I think Brian is in the right state of mind with continuing to add to it, but I don't think we need to make it more stressful. That's why I am saying add a couple of games in there that may not increase it too much to put more stress on the players or add in a couple of different Mario games with a new player or two to keep it going, pull in more donations, and to reach the later levels while keeping everyone fresh. Four players I think would be perfect, making sure that there are two people that can play at all times.

Even if nothing were to change and Mario Marathon 4 was merely a repeat of Mario Marathon 3 in 2011, I know the same people and more would tune in to see what happens, what kind of antics are thrown in, to converse with the Mario Marathon team and to see their names get displayed on the donation bar when they donate.

Speaking of the donation bar, I think there needs to be a better system in place to prevent abuse.

Edit: By the way, my aunt wanted me to thank you guys for what you did. Her grandson was at Riley's hospital for about four years because of health complications, she feels that everything you guys do and everything that Child's Play does is a great cause and that is really helps the minds of the children there to know that there is someone looking out for them. They are very grateful just as we are all grateful for the entertainment as well as for the increase in awareness.

[gravitythief]

Jul 1, 2010 10:35:43 GMT -5 layereddefense said:

It's not so much about fail gets with the RPG as catering to the large number of people that wanted to have it in the event but were turned away because it wasn't there.

I didn't mean the lack of fail gets is the one major reaosn why Paper Mario isn't there, and I apologise if that wasn't made very clear. I do think though that putting it in would have required someone who had played through the game before, and I'm not sure if shirtguy or anyone else kew of that 'one person'...plus, it would be very demanding on that person!

If they did include Paper Mario though, people would argue that there would be no reason not to include Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario World 2...the list would be endless.

[layereddefense]

Ultimately though it comes down to what the Mario Marathon team wants to include, or maybe even allowing people to vote on the front page or in a survey on what games they would want to include from the long list of games that are available. Include one or two of those games to take a break from the platformers and maybe during that time the normal players can actually get a rest without having to worry about continuing on which would help the marathon last longer.

I would actually think people would really enjoy Mario Kart 64 since it wouldn't take long to beat everything on 150cc if someone is capable of doing it, I know that I could. Perhaps even being able to do it on reverse if people donate enough, people would dig that. Having 13 or 14 games in the list, not all of them being platformers, would give some leeway from time to time to the guys with all of the pressure. There's not a lot of pressure in playing Mario Kart compared to the platform games. That's just my point of view on the situation.

I wouldn't even necessarily say play Paper Mario. I don't know how short or long the game is, but as I said even Mario Party would give the guys a break from the games that they have to play. It would be hilarious, would make a great youtube moment for some of the mini-games, and would lighten the mood a bit once fail starts to set in and tension starts to stir.

Actually, another great idea would be to maybe take a break from the game playing, just as was done with like the concert event, and include some time to take a look back at past events and highlights from each of the games. Kind of a "Mario Marathon in Past Years" sort of thing, or even do a tribute to the Super Mario series of games or Nintendo in general.

I also wonder if they would ever want to do the Zelda marathon again as that would be interesting as well.

I'm just kinda throwing ideas out there, I don't know what's a good idea and what's a bad idea, just that there are a lot of things that could be done.

[icecoldmario]

I agree. A Poll would be nice,and it wouldn't take long to set up. Viewers could choose 2 or 3 out of the many choices, and those get played in the marathon along with the 9 platformers. around 13-14 games would be nice, but that would put a lot of stress on them to play that many. I would suggest that instead of making us donate by the level, you set a deadline and stop playing if they don't reach the donation goal by the deadline ( only do that near the end). And we don't need you to 100% any of the games unless you want to. Adding games would make it harder on them. Taking breaks to show funny videos from past marathons would be nice, too.

And If you've watched thespeedgamer's marathons before, you might of noticed how laid back they are. They will just play a game as much as they can, and if the player gets bored or frustrated, he either hands the game off to someone else, or goes to take a break while someone else comes in to play a different game. They just try to have fun with the games, and make it a good experience (although MM1-3 were good experiences, too. )

Also, like mentioned before, a lot of viewers would love to help out in a heartbeat. Instead of thinking up all these achievements to make, just go to the most reliable mod or viewer in the chat and say "Hey, can you help me think up a promotion achievement for MM4?" We can help with anything you guys need. I bet we could even supply prizes!

And we're all making these suggestions just to help out IF there is a MM4. I know you guys have to sacrifice a lot in order to even attend the marathon, let alone play in it and monitor the chat., etc.

If you guys really can't get a MM4 going, I'm sure you can find a group of people willing to take it on, even though it wouldn't be the same.

[layereddefense]

I think even if some other group were to start taking it over, I would love to see the original Mario Marathon team involved in some way. I think you make a lot of great points, maybe focusing less on 100% completion and more on just having fun with the games and using the people in the chat to assist you would be great.

If there isn't a Mario Marathon 4, most of us will definitely understand and it will be missed, but if there is, I know a lot of people are willing to help contribute and help out.

[icecoldmario]

Jul 1, 2010 17:06:50 GMT -5 layereddefense said:

I think even if some other group were to start taking it over, I would love to see the original Mario Marathon team involved in some way.

I'm sure the team could find some time to talk with the new guys via skype on air. Maybe they could send some prizes in or something like that.